Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“The annual cost of a carer's recognition payment, as set out in the independent review of welfare mitigations, would be in the region of £25 million. My officials have been working to update that estimate. I will be in a position soon to share those updated costs with Executive colleagues. Any future mitigation package for carers and others will need to be agreed by the Executive and assessed in the current financial climate to make sure that it is sustainable over the coming years as well.”
“I hope to be able to do that in a matter of weeks. The information will be with the Executive, I hope, in the coming hours. It will then be for the Executive to decide what comes next, but I believe that there will be a consensus on that. It will be with Executive colleagues very soon with recommendations that, I hope, they will take on board.”
“Yes, absolutely, and I thank the Member for raising the question, because it gives me an opportunity to thank all the carers across Northern Ireland who do fantastic work in caring for others. It is work that would otherwise fall on the public purse to pay for. It takes huge pressure off public resources. I want to make sure that I do everything that I can, within the resources that are available to me, to make sure that we properly acknowledge and support carers in Northern Ireland.”
“In addition, my Department’s Make the Call service can carry out an entitlement check to ensure that a carer is accessing all the benefits, supports and services available to them. Recommendations relating to additional support for carers were made in the independent advisory panel’s report on the future of welfare mitigations that was published in October 2022.”
“Depending on individual circumstances, carers may have access to a range of support through the social security system. Carer’s allowance is the main benefit for unpaid carers and provides a measure of financial support to those unable to work full-time because of caring responsibilities. My Department will shortly bring forward legislation to reform the earnings limit for carer’s allowance from April 2025. That will enable carers to earn more money from paid work while retaining entitlement to the benefit. <BR /> <BR />Carers on a low income may be able to access additional financial support through income-related benefits, such as universal credit, that include extra premiums and elements for caring.”
“The redevelopment of Newtownards library is a key priority for Libraries NI. I am grateful to Michelle McIlveen for taking me to see it. For a town the size of Newtownards, the library facilities are poor in terms of the available space. I am pleased to confirm that an updated business case has been submitted to the Department in support of the proposed redevelopment. Of course, the library is working closely with the council because of the shared facilities and the shared space. I look forward to working with Libraries NI and Ards and North Down Borough Council to make sure that that is progressed, because, frankly, Newtownards deserves better than the space that it currently has.”
“I would be more than happy to come to Banbridge to see what the library provides and, importantly, what it cannot provide because of the lack of additional facilities. I assure the Member that I want to see the new build progressed as quickly as possible. I know that that is of concern to the Member — she has raised it with me previously — and I will do everything that I can to progress it as quickly as possible. <BR /> <BR />The Member's colleague, Deborah Erskine, raised with me the importance of a library in her constituency. I am glad that we are progressing with that and with the business case, and I hope to be in the same position with Banbridge library and libraries across Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />Notwithstanding the budgetary constraints in 2024-25, my Department has provided Libraries NI with just over £4·7 million in capital funding to progress committed projects. I am mindful of the importance and value of our public library network, which provides safe, welcoming and inclusive spaces in which people can read, work, study and access information and services.”
“Libraries NI, in line with its long-term estates development strategy, has proposed refreshing and modernising library facilities in Banbridge. As an initial step, with the support of £115,000 of capital funding from my Department, Libraries NI has recently acquired a potential development site from Armagh City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council. The site is situated adjacent to the existing library facility. Libraries NI will shortly begin the process of drafting a supporting business case for the replacement library project that will, in due course, be submitted to my Department for consideration. In the meantime, library services will continue to be delivered from the current location in the town.”
“That is an important issue, and it was something that I raised in a debate in the House in early 2017. It is hugely important, because we want to make sure that people can live in warm and comfortable homes, and insulation plays a really important role in that. That will be part of my conversations with the Housing Executive, and it is part of the wider retrofit plan to make sure that we have more energy-efficient homes. That again speaks to the fact that we need to see that change in borrowing powers for the Housing Executive.”
“I am hopeful, however, that we can get a resolution to the issue and that we can get the confirmation that we have been looking for for a long time so that we can borrow against our assets not just to build more homes but, importantly, to do the retrofitting, maintenance and repair work that is so badly required.”
“Absolutely, that is an issue. We now know that the backlog is over £10 billion of investment required to deal with the maintenance backlog, routine investment and a retrofit programme. That is why it is so important that we get that confirmation that the Housing Executive is able to borrow on the same basis as other housing providers and Governments elsewhere in the United Kingdom: for example, councils. I believe that I now have Executive support for this, if recent conversations are anything to go by. I have engaged with the Finance Minister on this; obviously, the Department of Finance is responsible for progressing the negotiations with Treasury.”
“I meet the Housing Executive regularly, and I am certainly happy to raise the issue. Members throughout the House will have dealt with such issues for those who are unhappy with work that has been done or the time that it has taken. If she has some specific examples, I will be more than happy to raise them.”
“If issues with quality persist, the Housing Executive will hold escalation meetings with the contractor and improvement plans will be put in place and monitored until standards have been met.”
“The maintenance of Housing Executive properties is an operational matter for the Housing Executive to address. The Housing Executive response contracts have quality-level standards and are subject to regular post-work inspections that also assess the quality of the work. Where quality issues are found, either through those inspections or through other means, they are raised with the contractor or the Housing Executive’s direct labour organisation to remedy. That is monitored through the monthly contract performance meetings. Where quality issues have been raised, the Housing Executive holds the payment until the works have been completed to the satisfactory standard.”
“I am determined to deliver positive change in all aspects of my Department, but, in this area, we have a united front, a shared goal and a common objective. I agree with Members when they say that it is time to get on with it, and that is absolutely what I am doing.”
“Quite frankly, it is shameful that so many people who are disabled and who want to work cannot break down the barriers to getting into work. We need to help them to do that. It is shocking and disgraceful that there is such a large gap between disabled people in Northern Ireland and in the rest of the UK when it comes to work. I want to do something about that. I absolutely will work with the Department for the Economy and all other colleagues to make sure that we break down those barriers as much as we can. <BR /> <BR />I am encouraged by the mostly positive views that have been shared today. They demonstrate, I believe, that we all have a common purpose here. I look forward to working with my Executive colleagues, Members across the House and our partners in the disability sector and beyond in a coordinated and effective way.”
“I look forward to making an announcement shortly. I understand the point that she made, and I hope to have a positive response soon from Executive colleagues. <BR /> <BR />I will pick up on the point that the Member made about the "Do not resuscitate" orders. It is absolutely right that those were mentioned. I can confirm that it was a concern for my party at that time, and the record shows that DUP members raised it both in Committee and through questions for written answer. We have been consistent on the issue and are certainly concerned about some of the things that we have heard. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I want to address a comment from Sinéad McLaughlin about the need to work together with DFE. That is absolutely something that I am committed to doing and something that she will see in the disability and work strategy.”
“It goes to the very heart of the issue, which is the value that we place on people and on a human life. Therefore, I will support her amendment today. <BR /> <BR />I also want to refer to remarks by Kellie Armstrong. First, I commend her for her work on the issue and for the passion that she has shown in the debate today. I agree with much of what she said, in particular about sign language and the lack of interpreters. She will understand that it has been an issue for me for many years. It is something that I want to move forward with quickly. I got Executive permission to get a sign language Bill drafted; we have been waiting for that for many years. During the New Decade, New Approach negotiations, I wanted to make sure that it was incorporated, and I am pleased that significant progress has been made on it.”
“There is a place for legislation on the work that we have been talking about today. However, it would be wrong to measure the success of the Executive by the passage of legislation alone. In fact, I do not think that we need to look too far into the dim and distant past to understand that legislation has been passed by the House that has not been helpful to the well-being of Northern Ireland. There are other things that we can do that will make a difference. That will be part of the disability strategy and the disability and work strategy, which can make a real difference in the lives of people across Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I commend Diane Dodds on her speech because, in my view, she hit upon the key issue, which is the value of life. It is under attack at the beginning of life and at the end of life.”
“Therefore, I have recently advised my Executive colleagues that I am reconvening the disability strategy cross-departmental working group to revisit work already done on the disability strategy and to ensure that it remains relevant and achievable. I will be happy to keep the House informed of any developments as they happen, with a view to bringing a completed strategy to the House as soon as possible. <BR /> <BR />I want to take a couple of minutes to respond to some of the comments that have been made today. Needless to say, I agree with most of the comments from other Members, but I want to pick up on a few issues. <BR /> <BR />First, I recognise the points that Mr O'Toole made about legislation in this place. Legislation is important and is one vehicle by which we can improve the lives of people in Northern Ireland.”
“There are two strategies that I hope to bring forward. The disability and work strategy, which is what I am talking about at the minute, and the wider disability strategy, which, of course, will be an opportunity to see how that can work alongside what the Member proposes today. <BR /> <BR />It remains essential that we learn from what has gone before whilst giving the opportunity for new views and voices to be heard. It is clear from the comments made across the Assembly today that we agree on the importance of this work. We need to ensure that we get it right, because we cannot waste the opportunity that a united Executive provides to move forward as a society.”
“There has been a call from Members today and from the disability sector for the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities to be incorporated into local legislation; indeed, the motion today calls for that very thing. I can tell you that that will be fundamental in the context of the ongoing development of the disability strategy, and I commit today to ensuring that everyone has an opportunity to share their views and ideas on how best to move forward. In addition, I am aware that the Committee for the Executive Office is undertaking an inquiry into differences in equality legislation between here and other regions of the UK. It is expected to publish a report on its findings and recommendations in early 2025.”
“The monitoring and effective reporting of the strategy will be developed as a key part of strategy development, but, absolutely, we need to have clear targets so that there is an understanding of what we are trying to get done. When I spoke in the Committee, I was making the point that it is an Executive-wide strategy. Each Department will be responsible for its own actions, and I hope that Members of the House and members of the Committees that scrutinise those Departments will hold them to account for those measures. I want to be clear that that does not mean that there will be no monitoring or that there will be no targets for that. <BR /> <BR />I hope to bring the strategy for Executive consideration early in 2025, with a view to launching a public consultation and getting the strategy implemented.”
“Whilst we already deliver a range of provision in close partnership with our voluntary and community sector, there is more that I want to do to enable deaf and disabled people to fully participate in work. Led by my Department, the strategy has been co-developed by a wide range of partners, including deaf and disabled people from the outset, to ensure that our shared knowledge and expertise delivers the change and impact needed to reach our ambitions.”
“At times, progress is slower than we would all hope; however, we cannot lose sight of the fact that all of our people deserve to live happy and enriching lives. That should be viewed not as an ambition but as a fundamental human right. My strategic focus, therefore, will be on programmes and policies that are transformative to people's lives and to society as a whole, and I intend for the disability strategy to demonstrate just that. <BR /> <BR />Further pushing to achieve the equalisation of opportunities and drive forward change is my Department's developing disability-in-work strategy, which will set a long-term ambition of increasing our disability employment rate.”
“Therefore, one of my key objectives as Minister is to move beyond a disability strategy that sets out visions for improving the lives of deaf and disabled people to a strategy with a focus on delivering clear, tangible results. I am pleased to say that the ongoing development and co-design of the Executive's Northern Ireland disability strategy has provided an opportunity for the views of many deaf and disabled people in our community to be heard and an opportunity for them to actively participate in that strategy co-design. That will continue through a further stakeholder engagement process. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to the valuable progress made to date and take the opportunity to reiterate the overriding principle of such work: "Nothing about us without us".”
“A robust portfolio of targeted strategies is pivotal to addressing the issues and to coordinating the work needing to be done. Hopefully, all Members will be aware that my Department is leading on progressing the Executive's disability strategy as well as a disability-in-work strategy, and I have tasked my officials with progressing that work at pace. In the course of that work, I have listened to many people in the disability sector, and I thank those who have engaged with me so far. I will continue with those helpful meetings moving forward. <BR /> <BR />Inclusion and accessibility are the preconditions for deaf, disabled and neurodiverse people to live independently and to participate fully in society on an equal basis with others. We know that because they have told us.”
“What we can agree on is that people with a physical or mental impairment that is substantial and has long-term adverse effects on their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities require additional assistance and that assistance can be particularly constrained at times of budgetary pressures such as the ones that we currently face. Our aim, therefore, must be to make sure that funding works for those who need it most when they need it most. Therefore, the initiatives that we deliver need to be effective and, just as importantly, sustainable in order to deliver lasting positive change. <BR /> <BR />Over a quarter of our population has limiting, long-term problems or disabilities, and that, in turn, impacts on many households.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />Addressing the factors that can preclude deaf, disabled and neurodiverse people from participating fully in society as valued and respected citizens in their own right remains a key priority for me. Today's debate is opportune, as it allows us to discuss all the facets of the issue, be it building on the success of previous initiatives or highlighting the areas where we still have some way to go to achieve equality and the full participation of everyone in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />As the motion clearly states, there is a real need for us all to recognise the diversity of disabilities throughout our society and to acknowledge that a one-size-fits-all approach not only is undesirable but simply does not work.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is essential that private rental tenants in Northern Ireland are offered the same protections from electrical risks as their counterparts in other jurisdictions. In legislating for mandatory five-year safety checks of a property's hardwired electrical installation, I have done just that. Anyone who rents out a property is responsible for the safety and suitability of that property, and many of the incidents that we have seen or heard of in the news could have been prevented by minor investment in health and safety measures. <BR /> <BR />I am grateful to the Committee for Communities and the House for their support, and I urge the House to support the regulations.”
“However, the Housing Executive has advised that it will endeavour to mirror the requirements in the regulations for single-let properties. <BR /> <BR />Mr Butler asked about Airbnbs. I do not wish to pass the buck on that one, but that is the responsibility of the Department for the Economy, so, perhaps, he could address his query to Minister Murphy. I thank Mr Butler for his reminder about the faults that exist in all of our electronic devices. We will all sleep a little less soundly tonight, knowing that that is the case, but it reminds us of the importance of making sure that we have sufficient regulations in place to deal with such issues. Ultimately, we want to cut down on the risk. It will always be there, but we will do what we can to make it safer.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am pleased with the consensus of support in the Assembly for these important regulations. I thank the Committee for Communities for its support and the positive way in which it has dealt with progressing the regulations. I will briefly address a few points that were raised. <BR /> <BR />In response to Kellie Armstrong's point, I confirm that electricians will have to be qualified to a certain standard, which is up to the eighteenth edition of the rules that are currently in place. LANI, which is on our stakeholder list, will be notified. <BR /> <BR />Mr Durkan raised the issue of temporary accommodation. That is counted as a single let that is operated under a licence rather than a private tenancy.”
“<BR /> <BR />The measures are proportionate, common-sense changes that will further improve health and safety for people living in the private rented sector. They will protect life and reduce the risk of serious injury. The changes are good news for tenants, landlords, the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service and the health service. Most importantly, they are good news for preventing avoidable fatalities. I commend them to the House.”
“The two main points that were raised and accepted with the agreement of the advisory panel related to the need for an appropriate lead-in time for compliance to take account of the supply of electricians to complete the inspections and an early communication strategy to raise awareness among key stakeholders of the legislative change and the requirements outlined in the regulations. Both points were taken on board in setting operational time frames, and my Department has been proactive in raising awareness of the potential legislative change. Furthermore, the regulations will be accompanied by easy-to-read guidance notes that explain the inspection and reporting regime in a step-by-step process.”
“The financial impact was assessed as not being overly onerous on the sector, on the basis of the cost of five-yearly inspection being in and around £200. Remedial action would attract an additional cost, but that needs to be viewed in the broader context of tenant safety and the reduction of damage to a rental property due to an electrical fault. <BR /> <BR />During the consultation, no major issues emerged that required substantive change to the regulations or the associated guidance notes.”
“The report will explain the outcome of the inspection and state whether any further investigative or remedial work needs to be undertaken. Where the inspection report details that remedial action needs to be taken to fix any identified faults, that work must be completed within the time frame specified in the electrician's report. Written confirmation must then be obtained from the electrician when the fault has been dealt with. As with the other parts of the Private Tenancies (Northern Ireland) Order 2006, councils will be responsible for the associated enforcement action. <BR /> <BR />The regulations were subject to a 12-week consultation that ran from September 2023. The estimated financial impact on landlords was highlighted in the regulatory impact assessment and was drawn to stakeholders' attention during the consultation period.”
“The panel included representatives from Electrical Safety First, the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service (NIFRS), council enforcement divisions and the Department of Finance's construction division. <BR /> <BR />The electrical installation must meet the required standards specified under the regulations, and landlords must provide a copy of the electrician's report to their tenant and, on request, to the council. The inspection will investigate key issues, including whether any part of the electrical installation is overloaded, whether there are any potential electric shock risks and fire hazards and whether there is any defective electrical work. Following the inspection, the landlord will be given a report from the electrician.”
“A similar requirement was introduced in England in June 2020, and Wales followed suit in 2022. In Northern Ireland, although private rental landlords must undertake an annual safety check of gas boilers, there is no mandatory legislative requirement for them to check a rental property's electrical system. Currently, it is recommended only that landlords ensure that electrical fixed-wiring installations remain safe to use. <BR /> <BR />I therefore think that Members will agree that it makes sense that, as a safeguard for tenants, we move to legislate to introduce five-yearly electrical safety checks of a private rental property's hardwired electrical installation. Given the technical content, the regulations have been developed by my Department with assistance from an expert advisory panel.”
“There are also around 27,000 people living in the sector who have disabilities, while nearly 18,000 tenants are aged 65 or over. <BR /> <BR />It is imperative that we remind ourselves why the regulations are important. 'Recharge', a report by Electrical Safety First (ESF), estimates that nearly 60% of all accidental fires in Northern Ireland homes are caused by electrical faults. It also highlights the fact that events are particularly traumatic for those in higher-risk groups as a result of, for example, their age or their having a disability. Compared with that in the rest of the United Kingdom, there is currently limited electrical safety protection for private tenants in Northern Ireland. The Scottish Government, for example, required private rental properties to have mandatory five-yearly electrical checks from 2015.”
“The draft Electrical Safety Standards for Private Tenancies Regulations 2024 aim to remove danger to life and to reduce the risk of injury and damage to property. The regulations therefore introduce five-yearly certified electrical safety checks of a private rental property's hardwired electrical installation by a qualified electrician. Northern Ireland census data shows that, over the past 40 years, the percentage of households that privately rent has nearly doubled. Today, over 300,000 people live in over 130,000 privately rented households. As Members would expect, growth in the sector has been matched by increasing diversity in its tenant characteristics. There are now more families with children in the private rented sector than in the social sector.”
“Yes is the answer to the last question. The payment includes everybody over the age of 66. We will provide the necessary assistance to those who find themselves in a position in which they had expected to get the payment but did not get it.”
“Some will get the payment despite their not needing it, and the amount may not be enough for others, but I want as much of the money that I have secured as possible to go to those who actually need it. That is what I have delivered today.”
“Yes, I can confirm that it absolutely is. I have scars from the experiences that we had during COVID. It is not easy to draft papers and put together a scheme, with an application and verification process. Getting such a scheme out would not only take more time but more work and more staff, which would cost more money and leave less money for those who need it. If anyone else had been in the position that I find myself in today, they would have taken the same route. If our desire is to help those who are most in need to get the support that they require as quickly as possible, this is the best way to do it. I did not want to go down the route of application processes, appeals and all the extra work that would need to be done as a result. It was my decision on the advice of officials in the Department. I know that we will face challenges.”
“I apologise. There will be people like her who want to give to someone else the resource that would have gone to their household. That would create an additional layer of bureaucracy in my Department, and the process of determining who is best placed to do that would be significant. There would be all sorts of procurement and bidding issues as well. In the short period of time that we have, I ask that those households use their discretion to decide where the resource should go to help those who are in most need. The Member mentioned one organisation. That would be the quickest, simplest and most straightforward thing to do.”
“I spoke too soon. <BR /> <BR />Regardless, I welcome it that she supports the action that I have taken today. I was going to say to her that I did not think that it was possible for her to be in receipt of the winter fuel payment, but I will not make any comment after what she just said. <BR /> <BR />I understand her concern. I welcome the fact that there will be people like her who want to give that resource —.”
“I sense a thawing of relations between Sinéad McLaughlin and I.”
“Very few options were available to me to get that money out, but, as I said, I would rather find myself in the position of giving some money to those who do not need it than see those who do need it get nothing at all.”
“I understand that. I recognise that many people who do not need the payment — it will not be essential for them — will get it, but I was in the position of having to decide what to do with the money that I had secured. First, it was right to bid for the money from the household support fund. It was appropriate to use that for older people. The question then became, "How do I distribute that money?". Doing it on the basis of what we have and the decision that I have announced today makes it universal. Using the IT system is the only way for us to get the money out quickly, without going through an application process and needing people in the Department to manually process it.”
“As many Members will be aware, changes made by the Labour Government restricted those who would receive the winter fuel payment to the category of pensioners in receipt a benefit, such as pension credit. I have decided that those who previously got the payment but are no longer eligible will get support of £100 that will be paid directly into the bank account that receives their pension. I am pleased to confirm that there will be no application process. When it comes to email and other types of scam, do not send your personal information. You will not be requested to fill out a form or do anything like that — it will be automatic. I want to make sure that that message hits home today, because I do not want the payment to be used as an opportunity for anyone to take advantage of our older citizens.”