Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“It will not be a point of order, Mr Acting Speaker.”
“— because unionists have legitimate concerns.”
“— we are not going to sit down and shut up. We are going to be listened to —”
“— they are rolling their eyes. Naomi, I have got news for you: —”
“Of course they are disagreeing, and of course —”
“Of course it does not: it blows it to pieces. It has become apparent over the past number of days and weeks, in particular, that many of the parties opposite only care about the Belfast Agreement when it suits them, because we have the SDLP and Sinn Féin calling for joint authority, which is clearly a breach of the Belfast Agreement, and the Alliance Party wanting to exclude unionists from government here in Northern Ireland.”
“It has disrupted Northern Ireland's place within the United Kingdom, it has created an economic barrier and it has led to constitutional change without cross-community consent. We do not have political stability in Northern Ireland, and that is as a result of the protocol. To those who disagree, imagine for a second if there were checks, control posts, charges and bureaucracy between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Imagine if those were in place and nationalist Ministers were forced to implement those changes. That would not be acceptable to anyone, and it would not be a firm foundation on which we could build political stability. <BR /> <BR />We have heard much over the past number of months about the need to protect the Belfast Agreement: that the protocol is in some way a solution to that, and that it protects it.”
“Let us be clear: this is not a serious attempt to elect a Speaker. It is not even an attempt to have a debate about how we can best help those who are in need. It is not even a debate about how we can sort out the problems that are preventing political stability and the ability to form an Executive. Rather, it is the campaign launch from the parties opposite ahead of the election. This is nothing more than a stunt. Everyone here today knows that there will be no Speaker elected and that there will be no First Minister and deputy First Minister, or other Ministers, appointed, and we know why: because devolution in the Assembly and in the Executive can take place only when it is on a firm foundation, and that foundation has been shot to pieces by the Northern Ireland protocol.”
“The Member's time is coming to an end, so I wanted to take the opportunity to address some of the points that he made about me personally. The Member has never asked me for a meeting to discuss any of those issues, so I offer him the opportunity to have a briefing from me and my officials so that he can understand a little bit about how the energy system in Northern Ireland works. His comments demonstrate that he does not have a clue.”
“On a point of order, Mr Acting Speaker. I made a point of order asking for you to rule whether what Mr Murphy said about my party is appropriate.”
“The Member must withdraw that comment. It is absolutely shameful that he would say that. He needs to withdraw that right now.”
“We need to recognise that Members on this side of the House have significant and serious concerns. I want to see that stable foundation. It is up to the Government to take action, but I hope that all parties in the House will recognise the concerns that exist and press for those changes that we all need to see.”
“The fact remains that the Member had the opportunity to turn up in October 2019 and did not take that opportunity to come here. <BR /> <BR />Let me make it very clear: I want us to have devolution in Northern Ireland, but I want us to have stable devolution in Northern Ireland. I will make this point: imagine for a second that we had on the Irish border what we currently have in the Irish Sea, with checks, control posts and, in the future, under the official controls regulation (OCR), charges. If there were checks, control posts and charges on the Irish border, that would not be a recipe for political stability in this place, and it is not a recipe for political stability when those things are taking place in the Irish Sea. <BR /> <BR />We need to see those changes.”
“This is going to be a very difficult mandate if Members cannot even accept the truth when what happened is there in black and white in Hansard.”
“Sinn Féin and the Alliance Party did not even turn up.”
“You all had the opportunity to come here in October 2019. The SDLP turned up and said that it was not going to do it.”
“That is the difficulty for the parties today. They had one position in 2019 and they have changed it. They are all shaking their heads, but it is the truth.”
“So, that is what has changed. Mr O'Toole has come here today and talked about "thwarting democracy". He has come here and talked about trust in politics. What does it do to trust in politics when parties were not prepared to elect a Speaker in 2019 but want to elect one today? The SDLP, Sinn Féin and the Alliance Party are completely inconsistent. They are all shaking their heads. They do not like it but it is the truth.”
“I will give way in a minute. What has changed in that time? Maybe we should look at the words that came next from Mr Colum Eastwood. He said:”
“Mrs O'Neill said that she would not come to the Assembly until an Executive were established. <BR /> <BR />Mr Eastwood said:”
“She came today and talked about the need to have courage to get on with the job and said that we should not deny democracy, but, of course, for three years Sinn Féin stopped the Assembly and the Executive operating.”
“We have just come through an election, and my party has won a mandate. It is difficult for some other Members to respect, but that mandate is to not go into an Executive until we deal with the instability of the protocol and the long shadow that it casts. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to the election of a Speaker, there has been a stark change of position by many of the parties in the Chamber. Of course, we tried to have the election of a Speaker in October 2019, and the leader of the Alliance Party, Naomi Long, and her team did not turn up to the Assembly that day. In fact, Naomi Long said, "We do not need a pointless talking shop." Her words. <BR /> <BR />Michelle O'Neill, in 2019, opposed the election of a Speaker.”
“More importantly, I truly hope that the measures will make a real difference to those workers who are victims and survivors of domestic abuse. I look forward to supporting the Bill.”
“Although it will take time to develop the new regulations, the sad reality is that there are people in employment right now who are experiencing domestic violence. I take the opportunity to encourage all employers to continue to support their employees who are victims of domestic abuse with empathy and flexibility. Once again, I refer to the existing guidance for employers on developing a workplace policy for domestic and sexual violence and abuse that was developed by the Department of Health and the Department of Justice. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the Bill is an important step in helping to tackle the wider societal problem of domestic abuse. I am pleased that we, as an Assembly, have been able to ensure that the Bill has had the opportunity to complete its progression into law as the mandate comes to a close.”
“As I stated during the debate at Consideration Stage, it is my intention that officials will commence the necessary policy development work as soon as possible. That work will include developing the procedures, conducting the required impact assessments and consultation with stakeholders, engaging with the Committee for the Economy and drafting the regulations. As Minister for the Economy. I intend to provide a clear instruction to my officials to take forward the necessary work to allow the Assembly to pass the regulations that will give effect to the Bill.”
“That may take time as there is a lot of detail to work through, and we want to make sure that we get it right. We need to ensure that the regulations support and protect workers who are victims and survivors and respect their needs, vulnerability and confidentiality. We also need to make sure that employers know what they have to do and when they have to do it. We need to develop a regulatory framework that encourages and helps to build the capacity of employers to be able to provide support in the workplace. It is appropriate that my Department will have the time and flexibility to carry out that work. <BR /> <BR />That said, while there is still a lot of work to do, it does not mean that we will be slow to act.”
“Furthermore, many employers have workplace policies to support victims and survivors of domestic abuse, and that is to be commended. I hope that the legislation will build on that existing support, as well as bringing it to the attention of employers who may not have had to consider the issue. <BR /> <BR />The Bill was drafted to allow my Department to undertake the necessary consultation and policy work to develop the detail of safe leave and how it should operate in practice. I fully support that drafting approach. This is a new employment right, and my Department will need to engage extensively with stakeholders to develop the regulations and accompanying guidance. My Department will, particularly, wish to seek views from employers, workers and organisations that support those who suffer domestic abuse.”
“<BR /> <BR />Helping victims and survivors to stay in employment will bring benefits to wider society. I hope that it will benefit employers by giving a clear instruction as to what they can do to provide support to their workers at such a difficult time. It may also benefit employers by reducing the likelihood of valuable and experienced employees feeling that they must leave their job due to the awful circumstances of domestic abuse. Who knows: maybe this route of encouraging people to tell someone sooner may even help to reduce the overall occurrence of domestic abuse. We can but hope. <BR /> <BR />Most employers are decent and want to help and look after their staff. Many already offer support to their workers, from time off to flexible working and workplace advice and support services.”
“<BR /> <BR />This important new employment right will provide a valuable space for victims and survivors of domestic abuse. That space may help a person to stay in employment at a time when they need it most and when that employment offers, albeit temporarily, an escape from the horror that they are experiencing at home. It could help an individual to retain some financial independence. It may also help to alleviate some of the pressure that they face as they seek to deal with important issues arising from that domestic abuse. It may help a person to reorganise their life and adjust to any new circumstances in which they find themselves due to such abuse. It may mean that if or, more hopefully, when a person manages to escape domestic abuse, they still have a job to go to.”
“<BR /> <BR />During the Bill's passage, we reflected on the appalling statistics that, all too sadly, demonstrate just how prevalent domestic abuse is in our society. I know that, as an Assembly, we agree that domestic abuse in all its forms is utterly abhorrent. Domestic abuse has a devastating impact on families, individuals and society as a whole. I welcome the support that the new employment rights in the Bill may offer to workers who find themselves in the most distressing of situations. The Bill will also play an important role in raising awareness of domestic abuse and, hopefully, will reinforce the message to those who may need to hear it that help and support are available. It is for those reasons that I reiterate my firm support for the principles of the Bill.”
“Once again, I commend the Member for sponsoring the Bill. I thank not only her but the Committee for the Economy and other Members for engaging so constructively on the new legislation. <BR /> <BR />I am proud that Northern Ireland will be the first region in the UK and Ireland to provide such an important employment protection for victims and survivors of domestic abuse. More importantly, to anyone who is here or listening today and is dealing with domestic abuse, I say that I hope that it sends a small signal of hope to you that the Assembly cares about your situation, that we want to find ways to help you where we can, and that we will work constructively to try to do better for you.”
“It is interesting that the Member thinks that only two solutions were put on the table. I have been clear from the start that I want to find a solution that works for taxpayers and scheme participants and that deals with the potential legal and financial risks to which we could expose ourselves.”
“I am surprised to hear that comment from the Minister of Finance, because he knows full well that, on a number of occasions, my predecessors and I have brought options to the Executive and sought to have that conversation. Unfortunately, it did not get onto the agenda.”
“What the Member has just said is rather silly. I have outlined how I recognise that it is a problem. She does not seem, however — there she goes, shaking her head. She does not seem to understand that certain Departments are responsible for certain issues. I cannot step in to direct hospitals what to do; I cannot step in to other Departments. They have their own remits, and the Member is aware of that. <BR /> <BR />Planning is absolutely an issue of concern to the economy. I have highlighted the issues, raised the concerns and talked about the change that we need to see. The Member needs to recognise, however, that Ministers are not responsible for all areas of work in Northern Ireland. Different Ministers are responsible for different areas, and I would have thought that that was fairly straightforward.”
“The Member rightly identifies that it is a matter for the Department for Infrastructure but then asks me what I am going to do about it. Unfortunately, planning is outside my control. That having been said, one of the issues that are raised with me time and time again is that our planning system is often seen as not fit for purpose and, in many ways, a turn-off for investors because of the time that the process takes. There are issues that need to be addressed at council level, as well as some at a Northern Ireland-wide level. The issue is the direct responsibility of the Minister for Infrastructure, so I recommend that the Member take it up with her.”
“I am fully aware of the issues with home heating oil and the difficulties that they cause. Regulation is a much more complex issue. The Member will be aware of the roles that others have to play. Clearly, there is a lot more competition in that market as well. What I want to do is to make sure that we are not dependent on those fuel sources in the future. That is the role that the Department for the Economy has to play.”
“That is what the energy strategy moves us towards: taking advantage of the opportunities that will come from, for example, hydrogen but, at the same time, making sure that we use the energy in Northern Ireland as efficiently as possible. The cheapest form of energy is the one that we do not use. If we can save energy where possible, that will make a difference. We are trying to make energy more affordable and more secure, and we are trying to make sure that we use it as wisely as possible.”
“In the first instance, the Member will be aware that fuel poverty is the responsibility of the Department for Communities, and there is a role for that Department to play, whether that be with home heating costs or other home energy issues. <BR /> <BR />As for what my Department has done, the Member should look at our energy strategy and the plans that we have in place that, in the medium to long term, will help us get away from the difficulties in which we find ourselves. Why are we in the situation that we are in today with high prices? It is largely down to the events in eastern Europe and in Ukraine in particular. I want us to move away from foreign sources of fossil fuels and towards generating more of our energy in Northern Ireland.”
“I think of the Assured Skills academy, which 48 of his constituents at Northern Regional College have been through, and the funding of £147,000. I think as well of Project Stratum in his constituency, where 7,296 properties will be connected. As of today, 3,000 of them have already been connected. Under the COVID support schemes, 1,876 businesses in his constituency were supported, with grants totalling £30,757,603. Under the high street scheme, £9,396,809 was spent in his constituency. That is a significant record of achievement in North Antrim.”
“Absolutely. I am more than happy to put on record my congratulations to that company in the Member's constituency and to highlight the work that we have been doing in North Antrim. That work is replicated right across every constituency in Northern Ireland. I think of the efforts that I have put in to ensuring that our hydrogen economy grows and develops in Northern Ireland. Ballymena has been central to that.”
“I think of the ERAP and grant schemes that were put in place that saved thousands of businesses and tens of thousands of jobs. I will leave it up to the Member to decide whether we have achieved enough.”
“<BR /> <BR />I think of Project Stratum, which, through the DUP confidence-and-supply agreement, delivered almost £200 million worth of improvements. There are 88,000 premises that now, or will shortly, have access to broadband; 10,000 poles have been put in place; and 2,000 kilometres of cable have contributed to that. <BR /> <BR />I think of the Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Act (Northern Ireland) 2022, which is really important legislation to protect workers who go through horrendous situations. I think of the implementation of the 10X vision and the opportunities that that will create in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I think of the work that we have done in hosting the Northern Ireland showcase event to show the world what we have to offer.”
“There are a number of things that we are pleased that we have been able to achieve over the course of this mandate. I think of the many Assured Skills academies that we have put in place, which have helped to create jobs and have brought more investment into Northern Ireland. I think of the economic recovery action plan (ERAP) and, in particular, the high street scheme, which enabled 1·4 million cards to be produced, delivered and spent in 3·7 million transactions. <BR /> <BR />I think of the reviews that we have undertaken of the Careers Service and Invest NI and the independent strategic review of the agri-food sector. I also think of the new energy strategy that puts affordability and security of supply at the heart of what we are doing, with a focus on energy efficiency and cheaper bills for consumers.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, I have only two minutes; I do not know whether it is appropriate to ask for an extension so that I can explain.”
“I note the recommendations from the RHI inquiry. If there is further work for us to carry out, we can do that, but it will be a continued conversation that will take place between officials and, no doubt, Committees in the days to come. I want to be as open and transparent as I can. That is something that I am committed to.”
“Of course, it is not the case that money is unspent. As the Member said, it is over a 20-year period; it is not something that is unique to this financial year. The Member will be aware of my energy strategy and my action plan for 2022. We have an issue around RHI to deal with. There will be financial consequences of that. That will then give us an idea of the sums of money that we will have left to deal with any future scheme that will incentivise renewable energy. He will understand that a lot of work and due diligence need to be done before that can be brought forward.”
“Well, of course, that is simply not the case. I have tried on a number of occasions to take forward proposals to the Executive, as did my predecessors Paul Frew and Diane Dodds. It is wrong to say that we have not brought options to the Executive. The difficulty has been in allowing those options. I am more than happy to have a conversation with Executive colleagues about that but, unfortunately, I have not been in a position to do so.”
“The Member will be aware that a consultation took place. We had to allow that consultation to happen. We had to analyse the results of it and to look at a way forward. I tried to get the issue on to the Executive agenda on a number of occasions. There are a number of financial and legal implications. I have been very clear from the start that I want an outcome that is fair to scheme participants and, at the same time, fair to taxpayers in Northern Ireland. I would like to have had that discussion at the Executive but, unfortunately, I could not get it on to the agenda.”
“The number of live enquiries changes continually as new leads are identified and others do not proceed. The Member will appreciate that investment discussions are commercially sensitive — indeed, attracting FDI is a highly competitive process — and as such that I am not in a position to disclose the status of any of those specific enquiries. In general, discussions with potential investors can take upwards of 12 months. Any decision to invest in Northern Ireland will be announced in conjunction with the investor when appropriate. <BR /> <BR />I also want to put on record that I let Invest NI do its job to market and sell Northern Ireland. The Member has previously accused me, in the House and online, of stymieing that work. That is incorrect and has been confirmed by Invest NI. An apology would be appreciated.”
“Across its international network, Invest NI promotes Northern Ireland as a destination of choice for mobile foreign direct investment, based on a compelling value proposition that combines our key strengths of a talented and loyal workforce, advanced telecoms infrastructure, a pro-business environment, competitive operating costs and proximity to major markets. Potential investors assess the aforementioned value proposition as an overall package when determining the optimum location for their international operations, rather than any individual factor being considered in isolation when evaluating our attractiveness relative to other competing locations. <BR /> <BR />Invest NI engages with a wide range of businesses and locations regarding establishing a presence in Northern Ireland, based on the strength of our overall value proposition.”