Gordon Lyons
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Implementing other recommendations will require further legislation that, I trust, will come in the next mandate, but I can confirm that 60 of the recommendations have already been separately addressed by either the Department or the commission. I hope that that answers his questions.”
“Yes, I do and am happy to share those. The issue has been raised in the Chamber and through Assembly questions. My position is that we want to make it simple and straightforward for people.”
“They also introduce greater flexibility in financial reporting, allowing requirements to be tailored more appropriately, reducing burdens on smaller organisations and ensuring that the system can adapt over time through secondary legislation.”
“If they want to constitute as a Northern Ireland-only charity, they are able to do that, if they believe that that will bring certain benefits.”
“That is similar to what we are trying to do with trustees. Even though you leave your position as a trustee or your position as someone who holds an office in a charity or who has employment in the office, the commissioner will still be able to make a determination that says, "Even though you have left, we are still making this order to t…”
“I do not believe that it was. That was maybe picked up wrong. We are happy to look at and explore that, but that is the information that I have on it. Again, we will have the Committee Stage of the legislation, so we can look into that then.”
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“I am determined to make sure that Northern Ireland has its place and that our distinct and unique identity is highlighted in the United States. The UK Government have a role to play in that regard as well.”
“I absolutely will. The 'Safeguarding the Union' Command Paper of January 2024 set out a commitment to:”
“The President of the United States and the US special envoy have acknowledged the common heritage that exists and the contribution that Ulster Scots have made to the United States. I am determined to use the anniversary to ensure that we have an opportunity to promote that contribution and shared heritage. It was clear from the organisations that I met in the United States that they are excited to cooperate with Northern Ireland partners in celebrating that historic milestone.”
“The Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) houses one of the largest collections of immigrant letters and documents in the world. The programme includes the launch of a special publication by PRONI that highlights its Ulster-American treasures. That will form part of a broader programme of outreach working in partnership with the National Archives in Washington DC. The programme will also promote the links that Historic Royal Palaces and Hillsborough Castle enjoy with Founding Father Benjamin Franklin. There is the opportunity to borrow items and documents from US institutions. <BR /> <BR />The contribution and influence that the early Ulster-Scots migrants made to the traditions and values of the United States of America is significant.”
“I visited the United States two weeks ago. A major focus of the programme was the upcoming 250th anniversary of the signing of America's Declaration of Independence. To that end, I met the America250 commission, the National Archives, the Library of Congress, the Smithsonian Institution and the White House Historical Association to discuss the work that is being taken forward by the United States/Northern Ireland cultural working group, which is led by my Department. <BR /> <BR />I was pleased to announce details of a new programme of cultural and educational activities to mark the 250th anniversary in the United States and in Northern Ireland. The programme will include lectures, talks, conferences, exchanges of documents, exhibitions and outreach in Northern Ireland and the United States.”
“That is absolutely right. It is important that we treat all languages equally. In the past, agreements were in place in that regard. Of course, one of the other things that I have been able to take forward is sign language legislation. We love to talk about diversity and inclusion, but that group has often felt left out. I am making progress to ensure that they have the ability to take part fully in society.”
“I am more than happy to consider all invites that come in. Depending on how the work progresses, I will determine whether it would be useful or necessary for me or my officials to have such a meeting.”
“We love to ask questions about meetings in this place. I do not have information on the exact number of meetings that have taken place, but I will happily provide that to the Member.”
“I have not had any discussions yet with the First Minister or deputy First Minister on that issue.”
“Work is progressing on the development of the Executive's Irish language strategy. Owing to the cross-cutting nature of the strategy, a cross-departmental working group of senior officials from Departments is considering the Irish language strategy co-design group's proposed strategy and action plan, which are being developed in parallel with an Ulster-Scots language, heritage and culture strategy and action plan. Alongside the work of that cross-departmental working group, I am considering the next steps in the development of both strategies and action plans. I will then engage with Executive colleagues to ask them to consider and, if content, agree those next steps.”
“No, because I do not think that that would be a good use of time. I have given examples of why, sometimes, meetings cannot happen. With regard to some of the social inclusion strategies, I have made it clear that I wanted to set out my Department's way forward before we committed to different meetings. Remember, of course, that many of the co-design groups have already been set up and have contributed. I am happy to compare my record of meeting a broad range of groups that represent people from right across Northern Ireland. I have accepted almost 400 invitations. I will continue to do as much as I can. More importantly, I will actually do the work of delivering for people in Northern Ireland.”
“We are moving forward on the easing of charity regulation. We are bringing forward a sign language Bill, for which I have received Executive approval. We have set up the US/NI cultural working group and passed the Defective Premises Act (Northern Ireland) 2024. We are bringing forward an anti-poverty strategy and a new approach to heritage, culture and creativity. <BR /> <BR />Meetings are important. Action is what matters. We are actually getting things done in my Department.”
“We have been able to make significant progress along a number of different lines within my Department's responsibility. On housing, we are bringing forward the housing supply strategy. We have achieved a stand-alone commitment on housing in the Programme for Government, which is the first time that that has happened. We are using financial transactions capital for intermediate rent and move-on accommodation for homeless people. We have put more money into Supporting People. We have put Housing Executive revitalisation on the agenda. We are pushing forward with private rented sector regulations. <BR /> <BR />The Northern Ireland Football Fund lay dormant for years. We are now making progress on that. I ensured that we had an Olympics celebration that was worthy of the success of our athletes.”
“Yes. So far, I have accepted 395 invitations from various organisations and individuals under the remit of my Department. It is important to put that on record, because there has been a lot of controversy about this over the past weeks. <BR /> <BR />It is not possible for me to meet everybody. Sometimes there are diary clashes; sometimes the issues are not the responsibility of my Department; and sometimes it is more appropriate for my officials to meet those groups in the first instance. I will say, however, that, although meetings are important and I continue to carry out my function in that regard, action — getting things done for the people whom we represent — is most important of all, and I am pleased with my record in the Department.”
“I reiterate my opposition to any intimidation whatsoever, wherever it comes from. It is absolutely wrong and should not happen. My party and I have been categorical on that matter. <BR /> <BR />If there is anything that I can do to assist, I will be happy to do so. I am more than happy to look again at the invitation. I do not remember that particular invitation; the Member will be aware that I have over 700 invitations. I am more than happy to look again at that invitation. I think that we in the House are all clear that intimidation is wrong and that there should be no place for it in our society.”
“I cannot answer questions on behalf of the Department of Education. Of course, if intimidation is happening, regardless of the situation, scenario or where it takes place, I will always condemn it. However, that issue was not raised with me during the meeting to which the Member refers, because it does not fall within the remit of the Department.”
“Even if the building were to be listed, that would not mean that it could not be demolished. All planning applications relating to listed buildings are determined by the local council. It assesses the merits of the building's special architectural or historical interest against current planning policy. My Department will be a statutory consultee in the planning process, but it will ultimately be a decision for the council.”
“DOF has also made DFC aware that the listing of Marlborough House might, in its view, have a detrimental impact on the future viability of the site for use by another public-sector body or on any potential sale of the building, should it come on to the open market. <BR /> <BR />My Department has met the Department of Finance and councillors from Armagh City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council and has extended the listing process to allow time for that. In the interests of maintaining the neutrality of listing decisions, the established practice in DFC and its predecessor Departments since 1974 is that the senior official makes a final determination on a listing proposal.”
“I have been briefed by officials on the proposed listing of Marlborough House. They have shared with me the proposed listing report and its case for special interest in architectural and historical terms, which is the relevant statutory test. My officials have also advised that an independent report was commissioned from a heritage architect by the Department of Finance, which is the owner of Marlborough House, to consider my Department’s proposal to list. It reviewed the historic environment division’s report and did not dispute any of the claims. <BR /> <BR />Senior officials in DOF have made officials in my Department aware that DOF intends to vacate the building and dispose of the site in early 2026.”
“I hope that the Member understands that I do not have those figures at my disposal right now. Of course, I will be happy to write to him with that information.”
“<BR /> <BR />That is the information that I have at the moment, but, if I receive a further update, I will be happy to provide it to the Member.”
“<BR /> <BR />Following initial conversations with Lighthouse, Choice Housing approached the Housing Executive in late 2022 with a proposal to change the designation of the George Street property, which was nearing completion, from general needs accommodation to supported accommodation, with provision for clients experiencing homelessness and related issues. The Housing Executive was supportive of that proposal, and, having reviewed the activity of the pipeline schemes and proposals from housing associations in the Ballymena area, it was satisfied that the proposal aligned with identified need. They say that it enabled the Housing Executive to maximise support across different need groups and look favourably on the opportunity being presented to address unmet priority homelessness provision in Ballymena.”
“I will certainly be happy to find out further information on the specific issue that the Member raises. He will be aware, however, that commissioning decisions for Supporting People services are a matter for the Housing Executive, which is the commissioning body for the programme. I understand that the Living Rivers Trust, which is currently located on Linenhall Street in Ballymena, is funded through the Supporting People programme to provide short-term accommodation-based support for single homeless males.”
“That is a very important issue. Overall, dealing with homelessness requires a whole-of-government approach, because the reasons for it are varied and complex. We know that young people leaving care or people with mental health or addiction issues are more likely to face homelessness. To prevent and resolve homelessness, we will take a collective, joined-up approach across Departments and statutory agencies. My Department leads on the development and oversight of the interdepartmental homelessness action plan, and we chair the homelessness strategy steering group, which includes the Health, Justice and Education Departments, statutory agencies and the voluntary sector.”
“In Causeway Coast and Glens, there are 25 units in two Supporting People homelessness schemes, including a voluntary sector hostel for single households and a refuge for victims of domestic abuse, and 40 single lets and 28 units of Housing Executive hostel or dispersed temporary accommodation.”
“My Department and the Housing Executive offer a range of services to support the prevention of homelessness. We also have voluntary sector hostel accommodation for single households and families, as well as refuges for victims of domestic abuse, single lets and dispersed temporary accommodation. The Housing Executive is the commissioning body for Supporting People schemes and makes decisions on the location of schemes in consultation with relevant partners. <BR /> <BR />I can confirm to the Member that, across Mid and East Antrim, there are 84 units across seven Supporting People homelessness schemes, as well 133 single lets and 37 units of Housing Executive hostel or dispersed temporary accommodation.”
“The Member is absolutely right. It is a decision that the Housing Executive has taken. I am sure that it is not one that it wanted to take. The Member asked me what I am doing: I want to do everything that I can to make sure that homelessness is brief, rare and non-recurrent. I want to make sure that the funding that is available to us is used, where possible, to prevent homelessness in the first place. That is the goal that I have set. We spend considerable sums of money on temporary accommodation provision, and I want to see more of that money spent on homelessness prevention.”
“That is an issue for the Housing Executive, and its chief executive has advised me that it does not record data by parliamentary constituency but rather by local government district. I can inform the Member that, during 2023-24, the Housing Executive received 1,288 homeless presentations in Mid and East Antrim and a further 1,110 presentations in the Causeway Coast and Glens local government district.”
“As I mentioned in my previous answer, the funding, as I understand it, is not used for those purposes. It is used to support all ratepayers, so I do not believe that a rural needs assessment has been carried out. That review is being done, however. It will be with me shortly, and I will, of course, take on board all the issues raised in it.”
“The policy impact on some of the section 75 categories is therefore considered by DFC as either "minor" or "no impact", because it affects everybody in the same way. It is not for specific groups.”
“The councils have informed us that the money that comes from the rates support grant is used in:”
“I do not think that that definition lies with me, but, if there are specific issues that, the Member thinks, I need to take on board as part of the outcome of the review, I am happy to do so.”
“First, the Member mentions the review. He will understand that that is ongoing. I expect it to be completed in mid-November. As Minister, I will do all that I can to seek as much resource as I can for my Department for all the affected areas. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, regarding regional balance, it will be up to councils to decide where that money is spent. Instead of being a regional balance issue, it is a wealth-versus-need issue. That is what the rates support grant tries to support, and I shall do all that I can to make sure that I get the necessary resources for everything in my Department, including local government.”
“There is no specific equality impact assessment on the reduction in the rates support grant.”
“We need to make sure that we have more homes. <BR /> <BR />Lastly, Diane Forsythe was absolutely right to mention rural areas, which will be taken account of in the housing supply strategy. I recognise how important the issue is. We will do everything that we can to make sure that we fix the problem and that everybody in Northern Ireland has a home.”
“Absolutely. The issue was helpfully raised at the British-Irish Council, and I talked to colleagues from other parts of the UK, Ireland and the other islands about some of the actions that have been taken. Those have been useful and fruitful conversations, and it is important that we learn about what is happening in other jurisdictions, such as how to better use the private sector and make the most efficient use of the homes that we have. There are also some ideas about what we can do with empty homes. <BR /> <BR />Another point that the Member raised that is worth mentioning relates to the demand and supply issue. That goes to the heart of what it is.”
“It is because I recognise and understand the importance of housing. If you give somebody a good home, it helps their educational and health outcomes, and it helps with the pressures on nearly every other Department. Safe, secure and warm homes are one of the most important things that we can do, and I am committed to doing that.”
“For the first time ever, I have been able to secure a commitment in the Programme for Government that housing will be a priority for the Executive, and I am bringing forward a housing supply strategy that recognises that it is not an issue for just one Department. <BR /> <BR />Other Members have rightly indicated the issues around planning. I have stood up for a Sinn Féin Minister in the Executive because I believe that we need the investment in waste water infrastructure in order to deal with some of the housing issues that we face. That is why it is a whole-system approach. That is why we need a plan. <BR /> <BR />Those actions are being taken with the limited levers that are available. With the budgetary constraints, action is still being taken. Why am I taking those actions?”
“Yes, 600. He will understand the budgetary constraints that I am under, but, even with the budgetary constraints that I face, I have taken action in other areas. I am using the other levers at my disposal to make a difference on the issue. Intermediate rent was not done before in Northern Ireland and is now being progressed. We are using financial transactions capital to help with move-on accommodation. I increased the property value limit for co-ownership. I have given additional funding to the Supporting People programme. I am securing additional funding for the social housing development programme.”
“If the Member had listened to me earlier, he would have heard those figures. He will understand the budgetary constraints that I am under.”
“That does not mean that action has not already been taken; in fact, in the few months that I have been in office, action has been taken on issues that have been left for far too long. I have already brought forward—.”
“I will not address them all. There was a common theme throughout the debate, and I will pick up on something that a number of Members said. Cathy Mason said that I needed to focus on fixing housing, and Sinéad Ennis said that immediate action needed to be taken. Andy Allen said that the time for talking is over and we need action, and Colin McGrath asked what we are doing to get on with it. I am pleased to say that we are making progress on the issue. <BR /> <BR />Mr McGrath said that we do not need a strategy or a plan. I will check Hansard, but he said that the last thing we need is another plan. I think that we do need a plan, and we need to be in a place where we bring all the parties together, because it will take a whole-system approach, and that will be brought forward.”
“I will also push forward with work to reform the private rented sector in order to improve the security and quality of tenure for the individuals and families who use it. <BR /> <BR />I want to mention the Supporting People scheme, because high-quality, effective housing support can make a real difference in people's lives and enable them to live more independently in the community. I am proud of the Supporting People programme, which has been in place for over 20 years, and all that it continues to achieve in offering vulnerable people the opportunity to improve their quality of life. It is vital that the programme is funded to support young people, those with mental health issues or physical or learning disabilities and older people, so that they can thrive in their homes. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to some of the comments.”
“My officials and I are in the process of investigating how we can do that without reclassification or significant restructuring.”
“I will continue to bid for further funding to support the SHDP and to help to deliver much-needed additional new social homes. <BR /> <BR />My next priority is to take action to protect the Housing Executive so that it can continue to provide decent homes for our households and families. I am actively pressing for a solution that will enable the Housing Executive to increase routine and planned investment to deal with maintenance backlogs and fund a programme of retrofit to improve energy efficiency in homes. To do that, we need the Housing Executive to be able to borrow in order to allow the investment that is needed. I am pushing that almost daily in order to ensure that we achieve that change in how budgeting is treated.”
“In the past three years, my Department has invested over £510 million in the social housing development programme (SHDP). That investment recognises the importance of infrastructure. Like water and sewerage connections, social housing is a key part of our infrastructure and a vital asset for us and generations to come. In the year before last, we started 1,950 social homes. In the previous financial year, across Northern Ireland, over 1,500 were started. This year, I would like to have started 2,000, but my Department did not have and was not given the money for that. I know that no Minister is happy with the budget that they received, but I am particularly disappointed because starting 600 social homes this year is not where we need to be.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to make homelessness rare, brief and non-recurrent and to make the strategic shift to prevention, but we have an immediate issue with the use of temporary accommodation. That costs money that is not being spent on homelessness prevention or supported housing schemes, and staying in insecure, temporary accommodation is not good enough for families. I want to prioritise prevention, to create as much capacity as we can in homelessness services and to make a long-term commitment to developing housing-led and housing-first provision. <BR /> <BR />It will take time to achieve those ambitions, however, and our short-term focus must continue to be on supporting those who are in crisis. Ultimately, we need more social homes.”
“<BR /> <BR />The whole-system approach is fundamental to the draft housing supply strategy that I am finalising and that I will bring to the Executive in the coming weeks. The strategy will provide a long-term framework to help to bring about the system changes that we need and to facilitate the PFG priority. One of the five key objectives of the housing supply strategy will be the prevention of homelessness and development of housing solutions for those most in need. I want to improve the response to homelessness. The sector is under significant strain as a result of increases in the need for temporary accommodation and demand for social homes, the growth of waiting lists and the issue of the availability and cost of private rented homes.”
“Those concerns are not faced in just one constituency. Across Northern Ireland, there is need and demand for high-quality, affordable and sustainable homes that simply is not being met. <BR /> <BR />Housing in all places is a priority for me, and it must be seen as a priority for the Executive. I have said numerous times in the Chamber that we need a whole-system approach to address the issues that impact on supply. That means that the challenges cannot be addressed by one Department alone but will require an Executive commitment and funding to match. It is welcome that the Executive made provision of more social, affordable and sustainable housing a key priority of the new draft Programme for Government (PFG), but the Executive must now demonstrate that they are committed to that priority.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Member who secured the debate and congratulate him on doing so. I welcome the opportunity to respond. I also congratulate him on his Bruce Springsteen quote — I do not think that anybody had that on their bingo card today — and I look forward to more quotes from The Boss in future. <BR /> <BR />I recognise many of the issues and concerns that the Member and others have raised on homelessness and housing in South Down. As I have stated in the past, in reality, many of the issues are seen throughout the country. They include growing homelessness pressures and use of temporary accommodation, the demand for social housing and increasing waiting lists, the availability and cost of private rented homes and the difficulty of delivering the necessary infrastructure to provide new homes.”